Jehovah's Witnesses - 04_01 - The Lake of Fire - "For ever"

Doctrine Article - D.0300_04_01

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(The following is part of our response to a series of emails from a man who presented arguments taught by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society - and commonly raised by Jehovah's Witnesses in discussions.)

1. You wrote that, "If Satan was to suffer excruciating torture [in the lake of fire] for all eternity, Jehovah would have to preserve him alive" … "dead creatures feel no pain"

2. The bible is our final authority. Let's look at the biblical meaning of "life" and "death" and "for ever".

a. The bible says that before we become saved we are all "dead" in trespasses and sins (Eph 2:1). That is because we "die" spiritually the first time that we transgress God's law (i.e the first time that we sin), with knowledge of sin. (Rom 7:9) And yet, physically, we were still alive after we sinned.

b. The bible also says that the "dead" will "stand" before God to be judged (Rev 20:12). If those "dead" people had been "annihilated" when they died (as the Watchtower teaches), then they couldn't "stand" before God for judgment; and God is not going to judge non-existent people.

c. The bible speaks of physical death and spiritual death – that is why we must be born AGAIN to receive "everlasting life". (John 3:3,7)

d. The righteous will be resurrected to everlasting life and the unrighteous will be resurrected to damnation, just as God wrote in (John 5:29).

e. You are quite correct in believing that the wages of sin is "death". But the bible describes what that word "death" means.

1) First, our bodies die physically, but we continue to live in the "real" world.

2) Second, if we haven't been born_again, then we will die the "second death" which the bible describes in several places as unending weeping and gnashing of teeth, where the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched, and where the smoke of their torment rises for ever and ever, etc. (Rev 20:14-15)

3. You wrote that "all of this reinforces the view that the lake of fire and sulphur is symbolic."

a. It appears to me to prove exactly the opposite. Let's read what the text actually says:

1) The text plainly says in many places that there shall be "weeping and gnashing of teeth". (Matt 8:12; 22:13; 24:51; 25:30)

2) The text plainly says in several places that hell is a place where "the worm dieth not and the fire is not quenched." (Mark 9:44, 46, 48)

3) The text plainly says "tormented day and night for ever and ever." (Rev 20:10)

4) The text plainly says "the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night" (Rev 14:11)

5) The text plainly says that the rich man was "in hell …, being in torments" and testified that he was "tormented in this flame". (Luke 16:23-24)

6) etc

b. If all of this was simply "symbolic", as you claim, then:

1) Why did Jesus speak about Hell so often and warn people against it?

2) What did the rich man mean when he said he was "tormented in this flame"? (Luke 16:24)

3) If the rich man didn't really exist, then how is a man who doesn't exist "tormented" in a "symbolic" flame?

4) Why did Jesus tell this story?

5) Why should we care whether or not a man who doesn't even exist is/was tormented in a fictitious flame?

4. You suggested that Luke chapter 16 is only a parable. It can't be.

a. Jesus told parables as parables. (People knew that parables were stories representing real life and were meant to convey a message, by example.)

b. But Luke 16 - the story of Lazarus and the rich man - was told as a real-life story.

c. Luke 16 included the names of two people (Lazarus and Abraham), whereas parables never mentioned the actual names.

d. Luke 16 referred specifically to a "certain" rich man. None of the parables were told in such a definitive manner - with reference to "certain" specific people.

e. Jesus said that Abraham talked with the rich man. Abraham was a real person. Jesus would have been lying if Abraham hadn't actually talked to the rich man.

5. If God had actually meant to say that the devil would be "tormented day and night for ever and ever" in the lake of fire and brimstone, then what words WOULD God have used in Rev 20:10 to let us know that, or what words SHOULD he have used to make that clear to us?

a. Does "day and night" mean "day and night"?

b. Does "for ever" mean "for ever"?

c. If not, then how do we know that we can "live for ever"? (Gen 3:22; John 3:16)

6. Prove all things; hold fast that which is good. (I Thess 5:21)