ANSWERING TERRY'S QUESTIONS PERTAINING TO THE DEITY OF CHRIST - WHAT PROOF IS THERE THAT JESUS CHRIST IS ACTUALLY "GOD" - HEBREWS CHAP 1:
1. You asked:
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom. 9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
a. Yes, this scripture says that "God, even thy God, hath anointed thee". I completely agree with that. I always agree with the text of scripture. But it appears you think this proves Jesus is not God somehow, so I will have to do more than simply agree with this scripture you quoted, or you will (again) think that I am ignoring your 'proof'.
b. It is not I who wishes to look at these passages out of context. So, let's do as you suggest, but go even further - and analyze the chapter in its entirety. That will require looking at all of Hebrews chapter 1 and not just the two verses that you suggest:
1 God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
4 Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
5 For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
6 And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.
7 And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire.
8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
13 But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?
14 Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?
c. As the chapter opens, we see that "God" is speaking. In verse 2, we see that he has chosen to do this (speak to us) by his Son. The Son is described in such a way as to identify him as Jesus (I believe you will agree.)
d. The Son (Jesus) was made better than the angels (indicating that he himself is NOT an angel, because it would be a logical impossibility for him to be "better" than what he, himself, actually is.) If you argue (as I expect you would) that he is the ARCHangel (Michael) which makes him better than the angels in the sense of authority or position, then I would agree that is an equally viable possibility at this point in the reading. This is a very important distinction. I understand this verse to be speaking about the substance or nature of the Son being "better" than the angels (since he is God by substance and nature) and you would understand it to be speaking about the position or office of the Son being "better" than the angels (since the ARCHangel holds a higher or more important office than regular angels hold). Please keep these distinctions in mind when we later are discussing the substance or nature of GOD in contrast with the position or office of the persons who comprise that one GOD.
e. The further distinction (vs 4) – that he hath obtained a more excellent name BY INHERITANCE than the angels have obtained – strongly suggests that the Son is more than just a highly appointed angel. The word inheritance connotes family (relationship based on substance or nature), not on business partnership, work appointment or other arms-length associations. Further, the fact that he "inherited" a "name" solidly reinforces the idea that this is not an angel, partner or work associate in any form but is of the same "flesh and blood" type-of-family (or in this case, because he is actually part of the family, is of the same substance and nature of God). In other words, only a family member "inherits" a name.
f. Verse 5 drives this point home – that Jesus is not an angel, but is family by inheritance – by saying, "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son? " The answer to these rhetorical questions is that NO angel at any time is ever called the Son.
g. Verse 6 is a reference to Luke 2:13,14, when Jesus, the incarnated, (FLESH), the firstbegotten, is brought into the world (I Tim 3:16 - God manifest in the flesh; and Matt 1:23 - Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us; and John 1:14 - the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us) As God declared in verse 6, "And let all the angels of God worship him" (And it should be remembered that only God is to be worshipped; therefore, herein exists another proof that Jesus is God.)
h. Verse 7, like verse 4, makes a distinction again between Jesus and angels.
i. Verse 8 couldn't be any more clear, as I said before: 8But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever" God outright plainly calls Jesus, "God".
j. The conjunction "BUT" in verse 8 further emphasizes the fact that Jesus is not an angel because God is speaking about angels in verse 7 and then, in contrast, about the Son in verse 8.
k. Verse 9 is the verse we discussed above that must be kept in the context of this passage. "Thou", "thy", "thee" (in verse 9), and "Thou" (in verse 10) all refer to Jesus, the Son. God has anointed Jesus.
1) The bible calls the Father "God" (I Peter 1:2 – Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, …; and Phil 2:11 - … to the glory of God the Father)
2) The bible calls the Son, "God" (John 1:1 – … the Word was with God, and the Word WAS God; and John 20:28 - …Thomas answered and said unto him (Jesus), My Lord and my God; and Heb 1:8 … but unto the son he saith, Thy throne, O God …)
3) The bible calls the Holy Ghost, "God" (Acts 5:3-4 - … why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost …thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God; and I Cor 3:16 - …ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you; along with I Cor 6:19 …know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?)
4) Deut 6:4 says, "Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:" So, we have three persons all called "God" and only ONE God; therefore, we have a composite unity of three persons in that ONE God.
5) This is why the Father and Son can speak to each other in the singular, why the Son and the Holy Ghost can speak of each other in the singular, and why "God" can speak in the plural… "let us make man in our image" Gen 1:26) This is NOT three Gods; it is three persons in ONE God. When Jesus died, God DID NOT die, only his incarnated body died (his flesh – John 1:14 and I Tim 3:16). In the very same way, because we are made in the image of God, only our body (flesh) dies when we die – but our substance/life/being (that which makes us who we are) continues to live on.
l. Remember when I was saying above that the Son (Jesus) was made "better" than the angels because he was of the same substance and nature of God, and you (presumably) would have countered that the Son was higher than the angels by position or appointment as the ARCHangel? Well, here is where that distinction in positions should improve the understanding. The SUBSTANCE or NATURE of the ONE God is found in the entire Godhead. (For example, speaking of Jesus, Col 2:9 says that "For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." But the POSITION or APPOINTMENT of the personal members within that Godhead are different (Like the archangel is higher in position, so too is the FATHER greater than the SON). They are equal in nature because they are God; but they are distinct in person and in appointment/position within that ONE God/Godhead.
m. Verse 10 is still referring to Jesus, the Son, "And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:" Note that – like John 1:1 – this verse does NOT say that Jesus had a beginning but that "IN THE BEGINNING" Jesus, the Word, laid the foundation of the earth, etc. Comparing scripture with scripture we also find that "IN THE BEGINNING" God created the heaven and the earth - which is another one of many proofs by scriptural comparison that Jesus is God.
n. Verses 11 and 12 teach that – unlike creation - Jesus will live forever. He is not a part of creation. He is the creator, himself.
o. Verse 13 is just like verse 5, bookmarking your verse of interest - Verse 9 - with the assertion that Jesus is NOT an angel. In this verse, the pronoun "he" is still a reference to God "But to which of the angels said he at any time, Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool?" The answer clearly is that God never said to ANY angel, "Sit on my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool."
p. In Verse 14, the use of the pronoun "they" in reference to angels again makes a distinction between "he" (Jesus) and "they" (angels) underscoring the fact that Jesus is not an angel. "Are they not all ministering spirits, sent forth to minister for them who shall be heirs of salvation?"
2. Yes, I certainly have challenged your words, because they reflect an interpretation that is only consistent with Watchtower literature; not with the biblical text.
3. If I have time, I intend to compile and summarize all of the questions that I have asked you that remain unanswered - there are many.
