Our Letter to an Historicist

Endtime Article - E.0001

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[Name Withheld],

1. It is always a pleasure to meet others who love the word of God. Greetings!

2. Thank you for clarifying your eschatological position. I apologize for having taken so long to reply, but wanted to give your email as thoughtful a response as possible, and have attempted to do so below, as comprehensively and yet as concisely as I could.

3. My initial email was triggered by your article at: [address withheld] in which you appeared to suggest (in paragraph 18, for example) that the Lord's Coming with power and glory already occurred in 70 A.D. From your email, however, I understand that you believe in his literal Second Coming - a soon-to-be-fulfilled physical and visible return to earth. With reservation over your use of the word "figurative", and of your meaning regarding the Holy Ghost's intent in sharing those passages, I believe you are precisely correct in what you have stated in your email to me.

4. The reason that I wrote to you was out of concern for you and for others who might believe that Christ's Coming is already past and for those who might believe in a "pre-trib rapture". Now I know that you don't. I believe that those who hold either of these positions tenaciously throughout the coming years will fall prey to the deception of the (literal) man of sin, the son of perdition, who will opposeth all that is called God (II Thess 2:4) and who will mark all those who succumb to his deceptions with some form of number/mark without which they cannot buy or sell (Rev 13:16-18). At that point, the matter would become a salvation issue for them and an error in their judgment or understanding would result in great tragedy.

5. Unfortunately it is not likely to occur, but it would be enjoyable to visit with you in person because we could much more easily clarify our understandings of scripture.

a. For an example, in paragraph 3 of the article mentioned, you appear to believe in a single resurrection - of the righteous and of the unrighteous. Yes, there is a single resurrection at his return - but only of the righteous, because the unrighteous are not judged until later. (The passages you cite do not specify that both are raised simultaneously. In fact many scriptures are fulfilled in pieces that are separated by gaps in time.) The rest of the dead (the unrighteous) do not rise until after 1000 years. (Rev 20:4,5) The unrighteous are then judged and are sentenced to the second death. (Rev 20:13,14)

b. For a second example, in paragraph 7 of the article mentioned, you appear to say that the Lord came in power and glory to judge Israel in 70 A.D. Clearly, some prophecies were fulfilled in 70 A.D., but Jesus did not physically return at that time. He had already ascended into heaven, sent the Holy Ghost as a Comforter and sat at the right hand of God the father. Then, as described in about six passages, the bible says that Jesus will remain sitting at the right hand of God the father until he makes his enemies his footstool (Matt 22:44). That will be fulfilled at Armageddon.

6. As you suggested, "Before worrying about Revelation, which is subject to great debate and differences of opinion", I should clarify my position regarding certain other endtime passages. That is a reasonable suggestion, and I have attempted to do so as concisely as possible below under the headings of the passages that were of interest to you, as you have listed them.

7. I agree with the hermeneutic principle that scripture should be accepted as literal - including the miraculous - unless the context clearly suggests otherwise. (Jesus literally walked on water, Adam and Eve were real people, the three Hebrew children were cast into a real fire, Lazarus and the rich man were real people ... parables are figurative but are used to convey truth by analogy, "waters" are used at times to represent peoples, beasts are used at times to represent leaders or nations...) Daniel 2

8. You didn't ask about Daniel 2 (Nebuchadnezzar's dream), but it provides great context to my understanding of the other passages to which you referred. Many people teach that the four beasts of Daniel 7 are another description of the world empires described by the great image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream of chapter 2. (i.e.. Lion, bear, leopard and ten-horned beast being Babylon, Media-Persia, Greece, and Rome). There are several reasons why this teaching cannot be correct. For one reason, there are only four beasts in chapter 7, but there are five sections of the great image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream of chapter 2, not four sections. The fifth section - iron mingled with clay - carries the element (of iron) from the previous empire (Rome) into the fifth world empire (Holy Roman Empire) which has come together and has broken up several times (as iron fails to adhere to clay). This began with Pope Leo III crowning Charlemagne as emperor of the Holy Roman Empire in 800 A.D., has continued through Napoleon's attempts at world domination, is possibly inclusive of Hitler's attempts, and appears to be recurring in the form of the European Union. (In fact the first coin, the ECU, had the imprint of Charlemagne, the Economist has a Charlemagne page, and a Charlemagne prize is awarded annually to the person who most advances the interests of Europe - won by Bill Clinton recently - the powers that be know what they are trying to do in re-forming the Holy Roman Empire.)

9. The Pharaoh's dreams were figurative in a sense, but were interpreted by Joseph to represent and foretell real events that would occur. Likewise, the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream was "figurative" in a sense because it was a dream, but it represented literal world empires that have come and gone since that time. Therefore, we know that the passages pertaining to these are foretelling literal kingdoms and literal events. Daniel 7-12

10. Daniel 7-12 includes several visions given to Daniel that portray events from his time until the end of time, when the Ancient of Days will come and judgment will be given to the saints, and the books will be opened. (Dan 7: 9, 10, 22).

a. Four beasts are described which represent four of the kingdoms that will be on earth when the Lord, the Ancient of Days, returns. (We know this from Dan 7:23 where it says that the fourth beast is the fourth kingdom). When he comes, their dominion will be taken away but their lives will be prolonged for a season and a time. (Dan 7:12) Therefore we know that, although the beasts are figurative in the dream, they represent literal kingdoms/nations that will co-exist at the Lord's coming. (This is another reason why they do not represent the gold, silver, brass, iron and iron/clay of Daniel 2, because those empires existed sequentially, not concurrently, and have ceased to exist well before his Second Coming.)

b. God used animal symbols to represent these kingdoms that would co-exist just prior to his coming. It only makes sense that he would use symbols that would be meaningful to believers living at that appointed time (now). (Proof: Daniel 12: 9, 10 - the understanding of these visions was sealed "till the time of the end" and "the wise shall understand"). The animal symbols he used were: a lion with eagles' wings growing out of its back, a bear, a four-headed leopard, and a ten-horned beast. If we are living near the Lord's coming today, then:

1) what nation would be represented by the Lion? (The British Lion - Britain.)

2) what nation would be represented by the Bear? (The Russian Bear - Russia)

3) the Leopard? (Germany - with it's four heads, the first Reich, meaning "kingdom", the second Reich, Hitler's third Reich, and the currently rising fourth Reich, because each head represents the rise and fall, or life, of that kingdom). Also, the world's foremost military tank is produced by Germany - the Leopard tank.

4) the ten-horned beast? (possibly the ten-nation western European union, the financial, military and political heart of the European Union, under Javier Solana; also possibly the ten regional unions or blocks, including the North American Union and the European Union which the new UN Secretary General, Ban Ki Moon, has greatly promoted and advanced; also possibly the new security council of the UN which is headed for restructuring due primarily to the problems of impasse arising from vetoed votes.) The answer to this is not yet clear to me.

c. Much more can be said about these, but it would take a lot of time. Consider though that the Lion had eagles' wings growing out of its back. The United States of America is represented today as the eagle, and it broke off from Britain (the Lion) in 1776. Daniel watched until the wings thereof were plucked off and they stood on their feet as a man (Uncle Sam?). These symbols are used prolifically in newspapers and magazines today to represent these nations. At some point, coincidence must end and one must seriously consider the accumulated bits of information that God has given us (precept upon precept; here a little, there a little) as literal facts that are literally applicable to us today.

11. One more brief point, I believe that Dan 12, (where Michael stands up and there is a time of great trouble), is referring to the "Great tribulation" that was described by Jesus in Matt 24:21 with almost exactly the same phraseology. (While we are considering this topic, I would add that there is no such thing as a seven-year tribulation and there is no "rapture" at the beginning or middle of it. There is a seven year period, sometimes called Daniel's seventieth week, the last half of which is this Great Tribulation spoken of by Jesus, because it begins with the Abomination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel that occurs in the midpoint of the week. (Matt 24:15 and Daniel 9:27 and Daniel 11:31) Therefore, the great tribulation is only three-and-one-half years long. Malachi 4

12. Malachi 4 teaches that Elijah will come before the great and terrible Day of the Lord. Jesus plainly taught that Elijah came already in the form of John the Baptist. (Matt 17:12,13) Possibly a better way for me to say this is that John the Baptist came (somehow) in the spirit and power of Elijah.

13. Prophecies can have short range AND long range fulfillments, and/or multiple meanings. A comparison of all the verses that relate to the "Day of the Lord" reveals that that day has not yet come. Therefore, it is likely that one of the two witnesses of Revelation chapter 11 will again, or will completely, fulfill that prophecy, because these two witnesses come in the spirit and power of Moses and Elijah for the last three-and-one-half years prior to the Lord's second coming, the great and terrible Day of the Lord. (Rev 11:3) Matthew 24

14. Jesus taught his disciples precisely, and chronologically, the future events that would unfold. The theme of taking heed against 'deception' was woven throughout his message. He clearly wanted them (and us) to understand; for a reason.

15. Among the highlights of his lesson, wars and rumours of wars (vs. 6) precede a period of persecution (vs. 9), betrayal (vs. 10), the Abomination of Desolation (vs. 15) and eventually the "great tribulation" (vs. 21). Then, immediately following that tribulation, will be his second coming (vs. 29-31). In that chapter, the sequence of events preceding his coming and the timing of that coming, which he describes as being "immediately after the tribulation of those days" is straightforward. II Thess 2

16. Paul had to write II Thess to the Thessalonians because they had not received the word completely or properly in I Thess regarding the 'rapture' of the church and the Day of the Lord. (I Thess 5) Remember that the Thessalonians weren't as noble as the Bereans (Acts 17:11) in receiving the Word and in searching the scriptures daily. Consequently, they had become shaken by false teachers who were teaching an imminent return of the Lord. (II Thess 2:1-3).

17. Even today, there are many who teach an "imminent" return, a pre-trib rapture, or a secret catching away, despite the fact that Paul taught at least two things that must happen first (the great falling away and the revealing of the man of sin). John teaches many more things in Revelation that also must occur prior to that Day, and as already mentioned Jesus taught several things that would happen prior to that Day in Matt 24. [our explanation_of_the_book_of_Revelation has been separated and posted as another article in this website] I trust that this gives you reasonable insight into my view of these subjects and explains my concern for having first contacted you. As always, I would welcome your views as your time permits.

Rejoicing that our names are written in heaven (Luke 10:20),

Mike & family